00:00:05:23 - 00:00:09:20 Sean Welcome to Voluminous, the letters of H.P. Lovecraft. 00:00:09:20 - 00:00:15:02 Sean In addition to classic works of Gothic horror fiction, HPL wrote thousands of fascinating letters. 00:00:15:03 - 00:00:19:04 Andrew In each episode, we'll read and discuss one of them. I'm Andrew Leman. 00:00:19:04 - 00:00:22:19 Sean And I'm sean Branney. Together, we run the H.P. Lovecraft Historical Society. 00:00:23:03 - 00:00:31:05 Andrew For today's letter, I chose one written on the 7th of February 1924 to Frank Belknap Long. 00:00:31:13 - 00:00:32:22 Sean Well, by jingo, let's hear it. 00:00:32:22 - 00:00:58:17 Andrew All right. Seven February 1924. Young man with spectacles, ... but about Weird Tales. Bless me, I've been getting so many inside glimpses into that of late, that I feel as though I own'd it! When I answer the letters in question, I will show them to you. One is from Baird, but the main one is from Henneberger, who, it turns out is the actual owner of the magazine. 00:00:59:06 - 00:01:24:19 Andrew He proposes installing Farnsworth Wright (a mediocre Chicago author) as editor. Henneberger has lost $51,000 on his two magazines and is planning a big reorganization. He will introduce a column by the magician Houdini and wants to cut down the fiction to one novel and two or three short stories per issue, filling the rest of the space with written up morbid crimes of real life. 00:01:25:04 - 00:01:53:10 Andrew He flattered me outrageously, calling my Rats in the walls of the best story Weird Tales has ever secured. But one thing interests me, Henneberger wants a novel or a novelette from me something unspeakably terrible and over 25,000 words in length. I think I shall comply with his request, developing a monstrous and noxious idea, which has for some time been simmering, and wholesomely in my consciousness, a ghastly thing to be entitled: The House of the Worm. 00:01:53:10 - 00:02:20:20 Andrew And your grandpa had read the terror. Child, this is monstrous well done with an horror that gathers each moment to the imminence of catastrophic evil. No one can so well, as Mr. Machen suggest, dim regions of terror whose very existence is an affront to creation. This tale I conceived to be inferior to the three imposters, not only because of the excessive looseness of the author's later style, but because of the laborious explanation at the end. 00:02:21:00 - 00:02:44:19 Andrew One should never state in horror when it can be suggested. As to pornography. No child. I don't believe you would enjoy it. You've heard all the big boys praising it and you think it's awfully grown up and everything. But I don't believe you like it for yourself any more than I used to like the tobacco I so assiduously smoked for effect before I put on long trousers. 00:02:45:08 - 00:03:16:17 Andrew There's nothing beautiful or artistic about it any more than the idealization of certain ultimate digestive processes as would be, and its only value is extrinsic as a necessity in the detailed and realistic depiction of mankind in psychological fiction. I am dogmatic enough to affirm that it have no interest in itself and that its apparent interest among the young is wholly factitious and derived from that curiosity which false education and unwise reticence in part. 00:03:17:08 - 00:03:43:17 Andrew When I was six or seven, I was of course curious about the allusions which I did not understand in adult books and about the prohibitions imposed by elders upon my conversation. Being of a scientific and investigative cast. I naturally followed up the mysteries step by step, indeed encyclopedias and other books for With my temper. No one dared seriously restrict my reading, ending with the medical books of my physician uncle 00:03:43:23 - 00:04:07:05 Andrew I knew everything there is to be known about the anatomy and physiology of reproduction in both sexes before I was eight years old. After which curiosity was of course, impossible. The entire subject had become merely a tedious detail of animal biology without interest, for one whose tastes led him to fairy gardens and golden cities glorified by exotic sunsets. 00:04:07:20 - 00:04:38:04 Andrew Curiosity. The one impelling motive had been satisfied in this field, and thence forward drove me into other fields apart from mankind. The fields of chemistry and the ultimate composition of matter, astronomy and the ultimate nature of the universe. Legendary and the ultimate possibilities of the imagination. Whether or not this element or humanness of any kind has a true and intrinsic place in esthetics, I am neither dogmatic nor interested enough to dispute seriously. 00:04:38:16 - 00:05:15:18 Andrew It may, though personally I don't believe it. I must have told you long ago that I consider anything connected with man as sadly cramped and wanting in universality. I think anything based on low instinct, necessarily tawdry, local and limited to a vast degree Freedom. The lofty freedom that puts a great imagination outside mankind, outside the world, outside the universe that I take to be the true godlike inspiration. Man is a brood of detestable vermin, a curse upon this planet, or at least a trivial incident of no ultimate significance. 00:05:16:06 - 00:05:38:14 Andrew I respect only such minds as ignore or minimize him. Such minds as that of the early Dunsany, who dreamt of pagan as gods and of the unsubstantial visions of their sleep, which are the worlds. Of course, I may be wrong. Probably I am. But nothing in the cosmos is of the least important. So I am not in the least concerned whether I be right or wrong. 00:05:39:02 - 00:06:01:24 Andrew I know what interests and pleases me and what queries and bores me. That criterion is sufficient for me. Keep your Thomas a Kempis and I will take my Machen. I read a piece in the manner of dean Swift wherein the true grossness of the subject might appear and the true vileness of immorality might vividly be displayed if the rough draft be yet in my files, I will. 00:06:01:24 - 00:06:31:17 Andrew Here, copy it for you. I read it some three years gone and with a carelessness which must excuse its many disparities of style. Yes. Here it is: The pathetic history of Sir Wilful Wildrake by L. Theobald Junior, dedicated to the right Honorable Reinhardt Kleiner, gentleman. In elder Days, when ruttish Rips Were always pardon’d for their Slips; When CHARLES (as if to set the Pace) With Doxies swell’d our British Race, There liv'd a Rake of antient Name Whose Sires had known a martial Fame: But who, indiff' rent to the Sword, Fought softer Fj ghts, and gayly whor'd. This Brat, of rampant Squire begot, Was sure desipn'd for Lecher's Lot: At Birth he had a roving Eye That winkt at wenches passing by, And ere he cou'd in Speech converse He got a Bastard on his Nurse. When ten the Boy had known with Pride Each Trollop of the Countryside, And pass'd so ably did he whore ‘em, The old Jas Triumr Liberorum! His Father, liking not to fee 50 swift a Growth of Peasantry, (Or yet a Rival quite so bold as he) Ere long the little Satyr sent To travel on the Continent; But many a Tale his Tutor told That prov'd the Stripling still more bold. He charm'd the ease Gallick Jades, And Bitches of Italia's Shades— God help us all if Years ahead Our Sons must fight the Troops he bred! (Myself, I think it downright Treason To wench abroad in any Season.) But in due Time young WILDRAKE came Back to our Isle to vaunt his Fame, And gain the Prize our King design'd For Merit of a gallant Kind. Behold him now at ev'ry Ball That frets the Peace of Windsor Hall; A Maccaronie of Renown With ev'ry Baggage of the Town; Bold with the Trulls, and quick to boast Of Vict’ ries o'er each reigning Toast, Nor slow to hint he hath been rash With Lady Blank, or Countess Dash! One idle Day a Nymph he knew Proy'd pleasing to the Royal View, Whereat our crafty riggish Imp To serve his Fortune turn'd a Pimp: The Fray was won—the Maiden blighted— And WILL, to pay his Virtue, knighted. (I need but add, the Drab was made A Duchess, grand in red Brocade.) Whene'er some pious Fool wou'd snivel That such damn'd Raking pleas’d the Devil, Our love-lockt Goat wou'd wink in Scorn And vow that he for this was born; For sure, the only Joy he knew Was of the Cyprian and the Stew, Whilst he wou'd rather far be dead Than out of some loose Mopsy’s Bed. Of Husbands WILL was much in Awe, And smil'd the more, the less he saw; But Cwpid oft will craft provide, So WILDRAKE early learn‘d to hide. Now all went well, till one sad Day WHILL'S Nose beam'd out with redder Ray, And powder's Leeches cry'd that sure He must depart to take the Cure. Not once but often did they force The rake-hell Blade to change his Course, Yet spyte of all the poor Wretch grows Pain'd pox'd, and putrid with his Woes. The years as well their Tribute claim, They seam his Face and bend his Frame, Till ere his Mind his State can see, He finds no Joy in Venerie. The Ladies flee as he draws near, And ev'ry Strumpet costs him dear, And what is worse, each bawdy Fling, No spark of Pleasure now can bring. Bred up to live on Lust alone, A Courtier by Priapus’ Throne, He sees ahead a weary Waste Whose Bliss he never learn'd to taste. “Alas!” he whines, “had I but thought “Of what vast Ills by Love are wrought! “Had J but train'd my mind to glimpse “Some Goal above my Whores and Pimps! "Fifty and feeble, I must crave “And ogle vainly to my Grave, “Whilst even then (if Crones err not) “My itching Ghost will haunt the Spot!" But one last Joy our WILDRAKE learns, The while in pox'd old Age he burns; For tho’ the Flame of Love be low, In Godliness new Beauties glow. The Rake, his genial Ardour spent, Turns pious, proud, and penitent; Dons sober grey; trys Church each Week To doze, or hear the Parson speak; Too old to whore, the Rip grows chaste, And damns the Bliss he once embrac’d. Resolv'd to wed, he secks a Maid Of Age and Chancres unafraid; An ugly Chit, tho’ young and sound, And bred on her ancestral Ground; Nor (save for Errours with a Groom) Devoid of Dian's virgin Bloom. With this sweet Nymph the Rake essays In rustick Peace to end his Days; Trades Bawdry for a Patriot's Fire, And turns a stolid country Squire. Three infant Forms the Household bless, Entrancing in their Loveliness; An idiot Girl, a weakling Boy, And one small Saint, his Mother's Joy, Whose Groom-like looks his lover's Sire annoy. So ends poor WILL, whom Parents praise For prudish Tongue and virtuous Ways; First to reprove a lick'rish Air, And first to stone with erring Fair. "Tis he that rails with righteous Zest At Modern Nymphs in Style undrest'd With shrinking Petticoat and naked Breast. His Merits all the Country fill, And Heirs adore him for his Will; No one (aloud) can think with Ease That Death so good a Man will seize. Nage'd, cuckolded by doltish Wife, The Hypocrite concludes his Life; Once hot for Cupid’s Pleasures only He pines—dull, rotten, lewd, and lonely! Your obedient ancestor H.P. 00:12:03:05 - 00:12:13:14 Sean All right, Andrew. So what was it that I don't know, I should ask, but what was it specifically that brought you back around? It's exactly what you say to another. To another letter to Frank. 00:12:13:15 - 00:12:20:08 Andrew Another letter too Long. Well, of course, we read a very, very long letter. Too long. And this was a pleasingly short and bouncy letter too long. 00:12:20:08 - 00:12:23:10 Sean So it does definitely show a different side of Lovecraft. 00:12:23:24 - 00:12:47:05 Andrew I mean, it's not the reason I chose it was because actually when I was reading the letter to Edwin Baird that we recently read, this is the very next letter in selected letters, Volume one, and it was written just a few days after that letter to Baird. And of course, the word pornography just leapt off the page as I was flipping through the pages of selected letters and thought pornography. 00:12:47:05 - 00:13:07:20 Andrew Now, that is an unusual topic for a Lovecraft to tackle. So I read it, and when I read it, it it seemed to me that in a previous discussion, you know, you floated the theory that Lovecraft was simply asexual. And I thought this letter added some support to that theory because the way he talks about pornography is very asexual. 00:13:07:21 - 00:13:16:00 Sean It is really interesting. So some pornographer somewhere would be very disappointed by Lovecraft's response to their hard work. 00:13:16:01 - 00:13:25:19 Andrew The very idea that, you know, the minute you learn the physiological facts of life, all interest in sex is destroyed. Is like that's unusual. 00:13:26:00 - 00:13:36:01 Sean Before you dive fully into the period bits. Maybe we should start with the the opening part of the letter with his discussions of of weird tales and what's going on there. 00:13:36:18 - 00:13:47:07 Andrew So this because this letter was written just a few days after the one to Baird, where he is, you know, talking about his involvement with weird tales, it was interesting to hear him now turn and talk about weird tales to someone else. 00:13:47:07 - 00:13:56:23 Sean Who write in a wholly different context than the professional relationship between writer and editor. Now we move to writer to co-writer to talk about the editors, and this. 00:13:56:23 - 00:14:10:22 Andrew Is from Selected Letters. So it has been a bridge. There's there's lots of parts of this letter that are missing. They did a pretty good job in editing of of closing up the gaps and making it feel like it was written this way, But it actually is full of holes. 00:14:10:23 - 00:14:11:07 Sean Sure. 00:14:11:13 - 00:14:22:11 Andrew He has just finished talking to Baird and he's learned that this new guy Farnsworth Wright. Who he does not think very highly of, is going to become the new editor. And Farnsworth Wright. Does become the new editor. 00:14:22:11 - 00:14:24:17 Sean And Farnsworth. Right was Baird's assistant. 00:14:24:17 - 00:14:44:00 Andrew He was Baird's assistant. He had Farnsworth Wright, had been part of the magazine from early days. And and the magazine lost, as he mentions in this letter. You know, he lost tens of thousands of dollars in its first year or so. So. HENNEBERGER Jacey Henneberger, who was the owner of it and of Detective Tales, was like, okay, we've got to do something. 00:14:44:01 - 00:14:50:09 Andrew Baird has unfortunately got to go. And we were going to put his assistant Wright, is going to become the new editor. 00:14:50:12 - 00:14:57:22 Sean Do you know anything about the specifics of what it was that Henneberger thought Wright could do that Baird wasn't doing? 00:14:57:22 - 00:15:18:00 Andrew I don't. And I recently read this book about the opening years of weird tales called It's the Things Incredible, which is a history of the beginning of weird tales. And they they didn't keep very good records. So it's very hard to pin down. I mean, there's like not even a written record of when Farnsworth Wright, officially came to work for the magazine. 00:15:18:00 - 00:15:30:08 Andrew It's it's it was so disorganized that there is no surviving record of who did what, when and who got fired, how and all this stuff. It is it is truly in a cloud of mystery. 00:15:30:08 - 00:15:35:16 Sean Well, it did seem to be their bookkeeping to party. Yeah, well, it wasn't a hard time getting paid. 00:15:35:16 - 00:15:58:07 Andrew Another thing about weird tales, which was different from most pop magazines, is weird tales paid when they published the story. Most magazines pay you when they accept the story, right? But weird tales didn't pay authors until it was published, which meant that writers could be left hanging for months and months and months without getting any money. Right. Because their story was still sitting on somebody's desk and had not been published. 00:15:58:11 - 00:16:04:00 Andrew So one of the reasons why they were so slow to pay was that they didn't pay until the story actually appeared in print. 00:16:04:01 - 00:16:11:04 Sean Well, it would be vexing if you're one of these guys stories and you can't submitted anywhere else. You're just stuck waiting time people crazy. 00:16:11:04 - 00:16:14:02 Andrew Yeah, it was one of the things that people did not like about weird tales. 00:16:14:03 - 00:16:36:01 Sean One of the things I enjoyed, I'm personally a Houdini fan. Oh, yeah. And of course, in an effort, you know, they talk about it in this letter that in an effort to kind of goose sales, to bring in Houdini as a marketing thing. And I think this is the first reference of it. And Howard's very blasé about, you know, the magician Houdini, as if we needed to identify what Houdini his day job was. 00:16:36:01 - 00:16:57:24 Sean You know, he's one of the most famous people in the world at that time. Yeah, but I thought it was really great at this point to see Lovecraft referring to Houdini that way, when then he actually goes on to, you know, meet with him in person at Houdini, his apartment in New York City. And one of my favorite little Lovecraft anecdotes of all time is Muriel 00:16:57:24 - 00:17:18:16 Sean Eddie seemed his wife recounted a tale of of Lovecraft going to dinner at a restaurant in Providence with Harry and Bess Houdini. And Bess Houdini has got a cockatoo sitting on her shoulder and Lovecraft for dinner orders half a cantaloupe filled with ice cream. Yeah. And I it just the whole notion of it just. 00:17:18:16 - 00:17:19:13 Andrew Living the rockstar. 00:17:19:13 - 00:17:32:14 Sean Life cracks me up. Absolutely. It's Lovecraft, the rock star. It was just so funny. So I just thought, wow, that journey from, you know, Houdini the Magician, is kind of an offhanded thing to actually having, you know, a relationship and knowing the man. 00:17:32:14 - 00:17:33:18 Andrew And of course, he was a charmer. 00:17:33:18 - 00:17:55:00 Sean Houdini Absolutely. And unfortunately, Houdini died, I think, Halloween of 26. So, you know, it was a relatively brief window during which, you know, imprisoned with the pharaohs or under the pyramids, whatever you want to call it, was was written and done. And then there was the nonfiction thing, the cancer of superstition in the works. So it was I ended up going nowhere. 00:17:55:03 - 00:18:00:11 Sean Yeah. So anyway, I thought it was great. Yeah. Lens through which to see Houdini. 00:18:00:11 - 00:18:11:03 Andrew And the other thing that the other thing in addition to bringing in Houdini, the other thing they're going to do to do sales is they're going to write up, you know, tales of true crime, of real life crime. And it again. 00:18:11:19 - 00:18:21:09 Andrew Another thing that reminds me of the current, you know, reality TV. There's you know, there are whole TV channels now devoted just to, you know, sordid crimes and drug litigation. 00:18:21:09 - 00:18:24:12 Sean And it's much cheaper than having stuff that's fictionalized. 00:18:24:12 - 00:18:28:12 Andrew Says, you know, weird Tales was was the harbinger of the reality. 00:18:28:12 - 00:18:30:15 Sean TV banks Weird tales. Yeah. 00:18:30:15 - 00:18:38:24 Andrew So yeah that was interesting to hear the plans. And again, he makes the reference to the tragically Lost novel The 00:18:38:24 - 00:18:47:00 Sean House of the Worm. Yes. Know we can always clearly on his mind around this time and yeah it's not the best title ever but he. 00:18:47:00 - 00:18:59:14 Andrew Does then go on to say he he's read the terror which was a novel from a well short novel from 1917 by Arthur Machen. Right. Which is I have not read it, but apparently it is one of Machen's better works. 00:18:59:14 - 00:19:04:02 Sean Yeah, absolutely. As he goes on to recommend the Three Imposters, too, which is another Machen story. 00:19:04:08 - 00:19:10:21 Andrew Oh, and I think his when he his salutation in this letter, young man with spectacles. Yeah I believe that's an allusion to a Machen's character 00:19:12:06 - 00:19:17:17 Andrew Because the Three Imposters, there's a mysterious character who's known as the old man with spectacles. 00:19:17:18 - 00:19:18:09 Sean Oh, there you go. 00:19:18:09 - 00:19:23:21 Andrew So I think I think he's addressing Frank here as the young man with spectacles is just a little wink to Arthur Machen. 00:19:24:07 - 00:19:42:20 Sean He he certainly I am struck with all the Long letters we've looked at so far that there is so this sense of paternalism in that relationship with with, you know, Frank is the son Lovecraft never had, but he's always Lovecraft always at pains to make sure Frank says. JR Yeah, you know, I mean. 00:19:42:20 - 00:19:50:12 Andrew Well, especially when he starts advising him about pornography. Yeah, you've heard all the big boys praising it. It is so condescending. 00:19:51:08 - 00:20:16:20 Sean It certainly is. Yeah. This is sort of the, the pornographic version of of old bugs, too, which is a bizarre, lame cautionary tale written by a guy who knows nothing about what he's talking about, you know, to somebody else. And same with that here. The fundamental question that got in my mind trying to wrap my head about Lovecraft contemplating pornography is what does he mean? 00:20:16:20 - 00:20:23:15 Sean What is pornography to him? I don't think, you know, is it a D.H. Lawrence novel? 00:20:23:20 - 00:20:31:20 Andrew I don't think Oh, I think it's pornography. Pornography has been around just as long as pornography was invented about 10,000 years. 00:20:31:20 - 00:20:43:06 Sean I don't know. Obviously, I'm well aware of that. But again, what is it to Lovecraft? I can't imagine. He, you know, porn in moving pictures is a very is a relatively I mean, there. 00:20:43:06 - 00:20:44:08 Andrew Were plenty of stag film 00:20:44:08 - 00:20:57:17 Sean There were stag films. Right. But not that H.P. Lovecraft would have ever he probably only would have heard about in the most remote connections of his aunts warning, don't go to this dodgy neighborhood of Providence because I don't know you know. 00:20:58:07 - 00:21:10:00 Andrew Or I can imagine Grandpa whip taking taking him to one at the Elks Club because that's where that's where men saw porn in that day and age was, you know, they would go down to the Elks Lodge for stag night and. 00:21:10:18 - 00:21:12:13 Sean Sit around with antlers and. 00:21:12:13 - 00:21:14:10 Andrew Three button wool suits and watch. 00:21:14:10 - 00:21:31:11 Sean Porn to get good time, good times. So anyway, it did really sort of make me wonder fundamentally, what does he. Yeah. When you bring that term up, what is he thinking of? Because he's not a guy who shows a lot of imagination when it comes to the arena of sex. He certainly. 00:21:31:11 - 00:21:34:06 Andrew It's hard to imagine him ever personally seeking it out. 00:21:34:11 - 00:21:36:21 Sean Or falling on his lap. Yeah, it's since. 00:21:36:21 - 00:21:38:03 Andrew It would have been utterly. 00:21:38:03 - 00:21:38:11 Sean Yeah. 00:21:38:11 - 00:21:40:21 Andrew This his interest died at the age of eight. 00:21:40:23 - 00:21:46:16 Sean Right. And that's what made me think of, of, you know, novels that were considered obscene or. 00:21:46:24 - 00:21:53:19 Andrew And I also think he is so Frank and candid most of the time that had he ever gone and watched it, he probably wouldn't did. 00:21:53:19 - 00:21:56:08 Sean Wouldn't. Yeah. As a gentleman, he wouldn't mention it to anybody. Oh, I. 00:21:56:08 - 00:22:01:07 Andrew Was going to say, as a guy who doesn't care what anybody thinks, he wouldn't pretend he hadn't ever seen it. 00:22:01:08 - 00:22:28:11 Sean Oh, I think he would have felt sullied as a gentleman for having seen it in the first Maybe so. Anyway, he yeah, it's in trying to contemplate, you know, there's this great question of what what is pornography, you know, and what is what is art. And he and I was interested in him pornography first in the United States anyway became outlawed in the in the 1870s through the Comstock Act. 00:22:28:11 - 00:22:44:13 Sean Yeah. Which was you know declared illegal using the postal system to send anything was considered obscene contraceptives, sex toys or letters with any sexual content or information in them, even completely private communication. 00:22:44:13 - 00:22:45:19 Andrew Comstock went a little overboard. 00:22:45:19 - 00:23:10:05 Sean Comstock was a fricken nutjob. So which he also you know, it was the death of a friend of his that he blamed on me. Anyway. Yeah, Comstock is a nut job, but he gets to this this interesting esthetic question of, you know, when does something have literary or artistic merit and therefore is art and when is it just too enjoyable and therefore it's porn? 00:23:10:05 - 00:23:16:01 Sean You know, that that the classic thing of you know, I know. I know it when I see it. Sure. 00:23:16:14 - 00:23:42:05 Andrew You know, love craft unfortunately doesn't doesn't expand in this letter to those sorts of explanations. I, I think I mean pornography was well established and even if Lovecraft did not seek it out or see it very often, he knew what it was. So I have I assume when he says pornography in this letter, he's talking about what you and I and most modern people would consider to be pornography. 00:23:42:05 - 00:23:50:00 Andrew I don't think he means D.H. Lawrence. I don't think he means a letter that has a passing reference to sexuality. I think he means pornography. 00:23:50:00 - 00:24:00:00 Sean Yeah. Although I think it's harder to necessarily dismiss it in a literary sense because, I mean, some people would just look at the works of D.H. Lawrence and go, Oh, it's smut. 00:24:00:01 - 00:24:06:21 Andrew Sure. Well, as our friend Laura Brody could tell, you know, there's a difference between smut and pornography. 00:24:06:22 - 00:24:09:06 Sean Yes, that's true. But she's a trained professional. 00:24:09:06 - 00:24:34:07 Andrew Trained professional. I think adding some weight to what you're trying to say is where he does get into this thing about whether or not this element or humanness of any kind has a true and intrinsic place in esthetics. I am neither dogmatic nor interested enough to dispute seriously. So while on the one hand I do think he just means pornography, he also clearly is thinking of pornography in a broader context. 00:24:34:07 - 00:24:53:16 Sean Yeah, in the many different embodiments that that could have, particularly that at that time in the world. And you know, I got to thinking too, it's like he he you know, again, he's so eager to promote the things he likes and dismissed the things he's disdainful of. So it's like if it's a man, it's a bunch of naked wood nymphs in a Grecian grotto. 00:24:53:16 - 00:25:00:23 Sean Well, my God, that's just fine, you know? But if it's a bunch of Parisian ladies scampering around, you know, then that's. That's appalling. Well, but. 00:25:01:05 - 00:25:14:17 Andrew Considering his tendency, like you said, to, you know, promote what he likes and disdain what he doesn't, he is pretty open minded in this letter where he says, you know, of course, I may be wrong, probably I am. But then again, I don't care whether I'm wrong or right because nothing makes any difference. 00:25:15:01 - 00:25:35:02 Sean Yeah, there's a great back to back turn in there because I had noted in my notes wanton snobbery and I respect only such minds as ignore or minimize in such minds as the early Dunsany, you know, blah, blah, blah. And then but then he turns right around and goes, Yeah, but I may be wrong. Yeah. And that is one of Lovecraft's both. 00:25:35:03 - 00:25:54:00 Sean I don't know. I find both irritating and charming traits is how, how horrifically ego driven he is sometimes in these proclamations. But then he'll often come right back around and cut his own feet out from under him and go, Yeah, may be wrong. Or if you look at it cosmically, it all doesn't matter anyway. 00:25:54:15 - 00:26:00:01 Andrew I he he tells Long keep your Thomas a Kempis and I will take my Machen I had to look up Thomas a Kempis 00:26:00:01 - 00:26:12:03 Sean I did too and I still don't really understand the reference of of of you know I guess he wrote a piece on imitating Christ well and bringing Christ to life. 00:26:12:03 - 00:26:49:23 Andrew Yeah. The piece he wrote was like the second second only to the Bible as the most famous and influential work of Christian devotion ever written. And he was a late medieval right, you know, German Dutch monk kind of guy. Right. And wrote this very famous book called The Imitation of Christ. I get this. I've recently been reading from Long's memoir of Lovecraft called Dreamer on the Nightside and Long has led me to his giving me the impression that he was like deliberately baiting Lovecraft with threats of becoming more religious, like Long saying, Oh, I'm thinking of becoming a priest, or I'm thinking of becoming a monk just. 00:26:50:03 - 00:26:53:18 Sean To drive Howard up the wall, just to get a rise out of Howard. 00:26:53:18 - 00:27:01:23 Andrew So at this reference to Thomas a Kempis, I presume is a direct response to some threat that Long had made about reading Thomas a Kempis. 00:27:01:23 - 00:27:08:05 Sean Well that that would make more sense because it did seem like he was kind of plucked out of thin air in relative to the conversation that they're having. 00:27:08:05 - 00:27:14:18 Andrew So and then Lovecraft goes on to two to finish up the story with a very jaunty little poem. 00:27:14:22 - 00:27:16:20 Sean Yes, he does. And I. 00:27:16:20 - 00:27:18:08 Andrew Know you love Lovecraft's Poetry. 00:27:18:08 - 00:27:19:16 Sean I do. I do. 00:27:19:17 - 00:27:21:17 Andrew So I knew you'd really enjoy this one. 00:27:21:18 - 00:27:45:04 Sean I did. I did. So this is another one of the I was thinking about. This is how much Lovecraft would have benefited from having a laptop computer because of the ability to cut and paste because he is always in several letters we've dealt with recently. He's grabbing things he's written at another time for another purpose. Right. And sticking them back into another letter here. 00:27:45:04 - 00:28:02:10 Sean Sure. And then I'm like, oh, he had to keep a file copy of this poem in the first place. Yeah, he had to copy it off to put it in the first letter that he sent out. And he's got to remember that he's got it. Go back, go through his files, find it, and then go back and write the poem out again for, for the the young man with spectacles. 00:28:02:14 - 00:28:06:03 Andrew It was so worth it though. 00:28:06:03 - 00:28:12:21 Sean You know, it is it is humorous. It is those kind of old bugs in verse about about living life. 00:28:12:21 - 00:28:17:12 Andrew Sensuously as Lovecraft's poems go, this one is does move along at a gallop. 00:28:17:13 - 00:28:40:21 Sean It does move along at a gallop. I will certainly give it that. Yeah, it's less painful in many ways. So. So he's he's trying to write in the Voice or a Jonathan Swift desk voice. Right. And Jonathan Swift brought us, you know, Gulliver's Travels a modest proposal. A modest proposal. And his works were, you know, often noted for their irony. 00:28:42:00 - 00:28:51:15 Sean Some remarkable irony in the fact that Jonathan Swift himself died of syphilis. And that's who Lovecraft is choosing to ape. Well, I think that's. 00:28:51:15 - 00:28:59:04 Andrew Part of the reason. I mean, this is a poem about hypocrisy and, you know, people who practice one thing and preach another. 00:28:59:04 - 00:29:22:13 Sean Sure. Yeah. It made me wonder to have the demise of of poor sir, Wilful Wildrake weather. I think we've talked about before how much Lovecraft knew or didn't know about his own father's demise. Yeah. And, and that becomes a really interesting echo in this. Sure. If and certainly if he doesn't, it becomes a kind of eerie to coincidence. 00:29:22:13 - 00:29:38:03 Sean And if he does, then it's, you know, shows a certain honor. I mean, it takes on a great deal more gravity kind of a if it is a cautionary tale. Yeah. That that's reflective of his own his own family tree. 00:29:38:04 - 00:29:47:20 Andrew I hadn't thought of that at all. And, you know, Lovecraft was only three when his father went into the hospital. And and, you know, I don't think he saw him much after that. 00:29:47:20 - 00:29:48:16 Sean So, yeah. 00:29:49:06 - 00:29:56:19 Andrew You know, if Lovecraft ever found out the truth about his father's death, it must have come much, much later when Lovecraft. Views about the world had already sort of 00:29:59:00 - 00:30:21:08 Andrew Calcified into their incredibly cynical and disdainful overall impression. So I don't know if it I don't know if I don't know if he knew the truth. And I don't know if knowing the truth would have made any particular impact on him. That's interesting to think about. Yeah, but it's hard to imagine. You know, I don't know if he if there's any self-reflection whatsoever in this poem. 00:30:21:08 - 00:30:31:07 Sean Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It seems another one, you know, like old bugs where he's going on and on being moralistic about something. I just don't think he knows anything about. 00:30:31:07 - 00:30:34:02 Andrew And if he did know, he might have kept his mouth shut. 00:30:34:02 - 00:30:43:20 Sean Yeah, exactly. It would have been more probably less likely to write a jaunty Jonathan Swift desk piece of 18th century folk poetry. 00:30:45:10 - 00:30:48:24 Andrew He does mention the Ustream liberal. It's a pretty good rhyme. 00:30:49:19 - 00:30:52:12 Sean It's pretty good rhyme, pretty good way to. 00:30:52:12 - 00:31:16:23 Andrew Bring in some Latin to make a good rhyme. But the ustream libre or am I had to look that up. That's in ancient Rome in Augustin Imperial days. It was a privilege that was given to any member of the upper classes who had three or more children. It was meant as a way of increasing fertility amongst the rich and powerful because they were very worried that there were more peasants than there were noblemen. 00:31:17:03 - 00:31:29:00 Andrew And so they would grant these privileges to two families that had larger families. And of course, apparently most of the senatorial class figured out loopholes to take advantage of the privilege without actually having the children. 00:31:29:00 - 00:31:30:08 Sean Nothing ever changes, does it? 00:31:31:16 - 00:31:38:09 Andrew For a guy who appears to be utterly disinterested and even prudish at times, Lovecraft does know a lot of synonyms for a prostitute. 00:31:39:09 - 00:32:01:23 Sean That he does, That he does. I absolutely give him that. And, you know, there is also, I think the underlying thing talking about, you know, Lovecraftian porn and, you know, as a young man, you know, looking at these, you know, medical mechanistic views of of human reproduction and he's so, you know, personally dismissive of them and how uninteresting it all is. 00:32:02:15 - 00:32:32:10 Sean Yet, you know, I think one can't miss in reading his fiction, certainly in a lot of the, you know, the hellish monstrosities and the tentacles and the gaping maws. And there's a lot of imagery that can be seen as a very sexualized manner. And I think it's at an unconscious level, but it's certainly there. You know, I think of the the sketch we did that reproduction of a from at the mountains of madness, the envelope sketch, you know. 00:32:32:13 - 00:32:38:00 Sean Yeah, man, you know, yeah, it's an elder thing, but, you know, you don't have to look very hard to see the vagina on the page. 00:32:38:01 - 00:32:40:09 Andrew Are you sure you're just not reading that into that yourself? 00:32:40:09 - 00:32:51:10 Sean Sure. Yeah, that's just me. That's just me. Yeah. Nobody else has ever thought of this, so. No, no, it's only us, period. Salacious types like me that. That put these things on poor, innocent Howard. 00:32:51:10 - 00:33:03:11 Andrew Well, anyway, I thought it was a I thought it was an interesting glimpse into an area that we seldom see from Lovecraft and. And a bouncy little poem that was entertaining and full of vocabulary words. 00:33:03:11 - 00:33:13:04 Sean Yeah, absolutely. No, it was. It was a good time. I actually I actually, for all the grief I give you on Lovecraftian poetry, I rather enjoyed it. Okay, good. All right. All right. Well, should we sign up? Yeah. 00:33:13:04 - 00:33:19:20 Andrew Our thanks today to Arkham House for bringing us this and so many other letters in selected letters. This one came from volume one. 00:33:19:21 - 00:33:22:14 Sean You can find them online at ArkhamHouse.com. 00:33:22:19 - 00:33:25:10 Andrew I'm your obedient servant, Andrew Leman. 00:33:25:10 - 00:33:28:11 Sean And I am cordially and respectfully yours. Sean Branney. 00:33:28:12 - 00:33:32:08 Andrew You've been listening to Voluminous the letters of H.P. Lovecraft. 00:33:32:10 - 00:33:40:05 Sean If you've enjoyed the show, we'd appreciate it. If you take a moment and post a review and we'll give you extra credit if you do it in 19th century verse. 00:33:40:17 - 00:33:44:21 Andrew Or write a naughty postcard all about voluminous. 00:33:45:17 - 00:34:17:13 Sean Brought to you by the H.P. Lovecraft Historical Society. Come check out everything we have to offer at HPLHS.org